Curse

jimmy_logic · Feb 25, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

hrmm this is only in team and random arenas... meh who cares there are always over powered build always running through them, cause there isn't enough players to cover someone when they getting pummeled to death. I.e. when your the monk and your getting knockdown and blacked out your other monk should be able to cover you. Blackout was useful before the GWWC its just the GWWC has made it popular. I used it to knock out warrior skills and I got laughed at... but it wasn't funny when they couldn't use any skills for 7 seconds.

Aejorii · Feb 25, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Blackout is nice for ruining warrior adrenal spikes

Juicey Shake · Feb 25, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

proper kiting > blackout, k.

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 25, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murder In China

Interruptions...

Give me a break, you think one would be stupid enough to activate blackout 5 miles away?

If anyone want to use blackout, use it after you manually ran to them.

Proper knockdown > kiting, k.

Also, as mentioned earlier... this thread is not about "NERF THIS!!", it is to discuss the feeling of GWWC aftermath. At this rate, this thread will get turn into "NERF THIS" thread.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Feb 25, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

You're surprised that everyone is using the same set of skills? People are hardly ever original and creative thinkers. And they mock people for trying the unconventional. Idiotic sheep I tell you...

wheel · Feb 25, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

You're surprised that everyone is using the same set of skills? People are hardly ever original and creative thinkers. And they mock people for trying the unconventional. Idiotic sheep I tell you...

Idiotic sheep are those who are using underpowered skills in an effort to be unique and creative. At least the people that use things like Gale, Distortion, Blackout, etc. are using a good build. There's a reason that the character builds that were used in the GWWC guilds' builds are few in number. Why would you want to be unique for the sake of being unique when the mainstream builds are so overpowered.

Competitive play on the highest level has nothing to do with whether or not you're unique. It is about winning, no matter what it takes, even if that means bringing the same Gale Axer, Cripshotter, Boon Prot, and Dom Mes that everyone else brings. You just have to play smarter.

Now, as for whether or not those skills are overpowered, yes. Gale, Crippling Shot, Distortion, Offering of Blood, for examples, are all overpowered in their current state. It's obvious how effective they are seeing the lack of diversity in the GWWC. They need balanced, and that process is already under way.

Further, I would suggest everyone to read David Sirlin's Play to Win series. It can be an eye opener

Timofmars · Feb 25, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

For 4v4, it's tough to defend against these things. But in 8v8, you have more options.

Maybe use Malaise on a warrior so they will have no energy regen, and thus no gale.

Blackout mesmers or rangers have to touch you. They can end up wasting a lot of their time if they have to come find you (making them useless for a while). So after they get you once, you move far away and put obstacle between both of you. Crippling shot would work well on these guys too.

For stopping these elites that give you problems, signet of humilty would end that, especially if you use it with mantra of inscriptions so that there is no downtime where the elite can be used.

milan · Feb 25, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

If this isn't a 'nerf' this skill thread why is it titled 'Blackout abuse'?

Using a skill as was intended is not abuse.

fiery · Feb 25, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Black out, Iway, rawr rawr rawr, both are skills that doesn't need nerfing.

zoozoc · Feb 25, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

considering this is 4v4 not 8v8 there is no need for a nerf or anything of that sort. 8v8 is a lot different from 4v4 and it ends up being a lot harder to use. Most ppl have it on a cripple shot ranger since they can safely run up to their target and use it, but then it only lasts 5 seconds. It is really unsafe for a mesmer to run past everyone else and use it on a monk. Which is why any good mesmer will simply stick to using it on warriors and offensive casters. Lets compare this skill to gale.
Gale only need 5 in air to make it as affective as ever
Blackout requires 14 in order to make it last 7 seconds.
Gale can be used from a distance.
Blackout you have to touch them.
Gale knocks them down so they cant even move.
Blackout simply makes them unable to use their skills.
Gale causes exahstion and costs 5 energy.
Blackout costs 10 energy and disables all of your skills for 5 seconds.
Gale is a spell.
Blackout is a skill.

Gale is supperior to blackout in all ways except the last one. Blackout being a skill it works well with rangers. They already made it so that you lose all adrenaline when using blackout so there is no way a warrior would be able to use this. Which is all you really have to worry about, if warriors wouldnt lose their adrenaline for using this skill it would be a nice alternative to gale.

twicky_kid · Feb 25, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

You say 4vs4 is not important. Well what happens when you run into a split team in GvG. That is usually a 4vs4 match across the map. Unimportant I think not.

The 4vs4 arena is there for a reason not just for simple entertainment. If you have a split build and would like to see how well it functions take it to TA. If you want to see how your build would defend against split take it to TA.

In CA I could care less. No one is cordinated in CA.

JR · Feb 25, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You say 4vs4 is not important. Well what happens when you run into a split team in GvG. That is usually a 4vs4 match across the map. Unimportant I think not.

The 4vs4 arena is there for a reason not just for simple entertainment. If you have a split build and would like to see how well it functions take it to TA. If you want to see how your build would defend against split take it to TA.

In CA I could care less. No one is cordinated in CA.

The problem with TA, is the lack of competition. Basicly the majority of the players there are pretty bad. Running any kind of serious build in TA, it is depressing to lose. Ok it's not a bad way to test certain aspects of how a build works, but it's far from perfect. Testing a GvG build? Get some unrateds going.

Ensign · Feb 26, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

There are a lot of people running the builds from the world championships these days. Gee, I wonder why.

The thing about Blackout is that if you aren't using it well it might as well not be on your bar. A well timed, well placed Blackout can be devastating, but just randomly throwing it around is just a waste of everyone's time.

The good players make it good, and the bad players make it bad. I love skills like that.

Peace,
-CxE

LouAl · Feb 26, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I have used black out in RA, it is a lot of fun, but VERY difficult to do effectively.

I use it sometimes with my W/Me, it works well with echo because you can keep someone BO'd for about 25 seconds and just keep slapping them around. It is tough to do though because you are also blacked out (an ele using conjure and a sword killed me once) and you can't heal, rez, use stance, etc. and you don't gain adrenaline. It really wouldn't be effective against organized groups tho.

TheArrow · Feb 26, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

I guess the GWWC really help commoners to catch what work and what not.

My only complain is that, touch range skills even go through spell breaker and obsidian flesh. There are 0 skill out there that can counter it directly.

The only indirect thing you can do against it is kiting, but not when they can knock you down 24/7 with gale.

Tough chances.

Now, I just hope everyone catch up in body blocking for your monk, like how you cut-way for your partner in basketball court.

Read the skill descriptions. Spell Breaker and Obsidian Flesh prevent the enemy from casting spells on you. Blackout, however, is a skill.

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 26, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheArrow

Read the skill descriptions. Spell Breaker and Obsidian Flesh prevent the enemy from casting spells on you. Blackout, however, is a skill.

When did I say it was a spell? The point is, spell breaker and obsidian flesh should have been more invinsible to spell effects, however touch range just kind of destroy the dream of "immune to spell-like effect".

TheArrow · Feb 26, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

When did I say it was a spell? The point is, spell breaker and obsidian flesh should have been more invinsible to spell effects, however touch range just kind of destroy the dream of "immune to spell-like effect".

Sure you can make them more invincible to spell effects, but Blackout is not a spell. It's a skill. Stupidity is not an excuse for wanting Spell Breaker to stop skills.

twicky_kid · Feb 26, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheArrow

Sure you can make them more invincible to spell effects, but Blackout is not a spell. It's a skill. Stupidity is not an excuse for wanting Spell Breaker to stop skills.

Its not stupid of offer a balance solution or ideas to bounce around.

Flaming is not a good idea here. I'd choose your words wisely and act like you have some maturity lvl. If you want to flame some one go into CA and turn on the local chat. Its not needed here.

Looking at the common build right now its 1 w/e, 1 crippler, 1 blackout mes, and 1 monk.

Cripple>kitting so you can't get away from the war. Gale+blackout lock you out of your skills forever. I can see why this build went to the top. Too bad I didn't think of it first

Still you need to players to run it but this build seems very easy to run with very little cordination.

Oh and the comment about unrated GvG is laughable. No faction, no rating, you have to be ready, opposing team has to be ready, and you have to know each other to set it up in the first place. Not to mention convincing your guilds and foes to take part in one since its mostly a waste of time. Why do unrated when I can make a smurf guild and get faction at the same time?

Until unrated GvG is random its just about completely useless. Since release of game I have been able to do 2 unrated GvGs. Its no comparason to TA for testing a half of a split build or learning how to battle one with a build that's not made to split.

Bio-Flame · Feb 26, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

It's natural for people wanting to use good tested builds.
I mean if it works for the people in the top-ladder guilds than it's probably because it's a good build to start with.

You can't blaim people for running good builds, can you?

zoozoc · Feb 26, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

so suddenly your talking about gvg? It takes 2 characters to shut down 1 monk? That dosnt sound to overpowered to me. So at max with a 7 second blackout and a 3 second gale thats 10 seconds, 7 of which you can kite. Oh ya and they are using a cripple shot ranger, so thats 3 ppl. So how again is that overpowered? It only takes a domination mesmer to effectivly shut down a monk, but in your scenario it takes 3 different ppl.(2 if the ranger is using blackout, but then it only lasts for 5 seconds and he cant use any skills for 5 seconds, sounds like a pretty good trade off to me) And like Ensign already stated, if its not timed properly it dosnt make much of a difference.